thedave welbourne interviewhistory is "just one f**king thing after another" - alan bennett____________________________________________________________________
questions by nick watson and greg shepherd (question 19)
DW, centre, back row, in colours strangely similar to BCFC1. I retired from Benton in 2006. I had been Head of History since 1984. Before that I had been Second in Department and in charge of Environmental Studies, a course devised for the first year that had to stop on at school by law until the age of 16. I had come to Benton in 1973 from being Head of History at Cowley’s School, Donington, in Lincolnshire.
2. I stay in touch with several members of staff, most of whom were not at Benton when you were there. I meet up with Richard Hoban, and sometimes Pete Simm and Tony Martin.
3. I believe discipline is important if pupils are to learn. Pupils vary a great deal, but it is important that all pupils have a right to learn and that this should not be disrupted by a minority, or an individual. Educational opportunities are very important and everyone should be able to maximise these opportunities, whatever their abilities and backgrounds, because their futures will depend on this. I don’t just mean achieving success in exams. Their social and personal development, and, indeed, their personalities are usually the result of their school experience. Discipline comes through working together and stimulating their interests. I believed it came through enjoyment but we all have our off days, pupils and teachers. Cultivating a classroom presence is important. I always tried to be a good teacher, and very rarely did I have to go ‘berserk’. My philosophy was to be firm but fair. I think laughter in the classroom helps to develop good discipline. Respect is important, but it has to be earned. I managed to get through to some of ‘the hardest cases’, and we still have mutual respect whenever I bump into them in pubs, at football matches or concerts. I’m always interested in how pupil’s lives have turned out since leaving Benton.
There are always myths or exaggerations surrounding school experiences. When I first started at Benton, a teacher who was about to retire gave me his cane. It was long with a curved metal handle. It used to hang on the pipe behind the desk. I never used it apart from pointing with it and sometimes carrying it around the classroom. It must have made an impression as some pupils believed it had been ‘used’ on them. It is important to understand how the law has changed. When I was at primary school we were caned by the class teacher for things such as talking in class, and I was caned by the head-teacher, along with a number of other boys, on both hands, for playing football in the yard, after the bell had gone, and I was only nine years old. If you were punished at school you were usually punished at home as a consequence.
caning - something DW was subjected to but never practicedIt was more or less like this when I started teaching in 1969. But by then it was normally the head or designated teachers who were allowed to cane. As in the past it had to be recorded in the punishment book. I remember using the Benton punishment book when I put together an exhibition for its 40th anniversary. Misdemeanours for 1962 included smoking, swearing, refusing to obey a teacher, and bullying. I remember being called to witness a caning, because this was the correct procedure, and I must say I found it disturbing. Caning had even been abolished in prisons many years before, so a more humane form of discipline was called for in schools. Nevertheless, there is a danger today that teachers are left powerless, and low level disruption takes up too much time. The management of schools has changed. Teacher personalities were important then, but today there is too much bureaucracy and heads and senior management are often administrators. Nonetheless, I still feel proud to have had a career in teaching, and generally I believe it is a better profession for the abolition of corporal punishment, but teachers should be left with some effective sanctions.
4. There was generally a good spirit amongst the staff at Benton in the early 80s. There was a supportive environment, and interesting personalities and talents. Standards were high and academic results were rising. There was also a concern for pupils with special needs. Teachers attended courses and meetings designed to enhance their effective teaching, usually at their own expense, and developed their knowledge and teaching strategies. Teachers from the school had good reputations amongst teachers in other schools. There was a rich extra-curriculum, from sport to music, which involved many staff. There was a stable staff and little turn over, with ‘new blood’ adding to the quality. Altogether, I think it was a popular, happy school with supportive parents who were happy with the experiences their children received. I certainly believe there were tremendous opportunities for all. It was building an outstanding status for its role in teacher training.
5. When you have taught for many years, there’s a tendency to forget who was in which form, so I am afraid I can’t remember individual form lists. Obviously you tend to have stronger memories about those who spent seven years at the school. I do remember the names of most of those on the list, including yourself, Chris Boffey and Greg Shepherd. I remember many from other years, but there are too many to mention here.
6. There is a strong link between history and politics. I think it is often through history that we begin to understand the importance of politics, and this is partly how I became politicised.
7. I was involved in the CND and Peace Movement from the 1970s. I was also in the Anti-Apartheid Movement. I remember going to the ‘Free Nelson Mandella’ concert at Wembley. I was involved in ‘Rock Against Racism’, and always recall that music and bands on this end of the political spectrum were much better, as were the concerts. I was at one time Vice-Chairman of Otley Labour Party and stood, unsuccessfully, for the Council. I was also a trade union representative. I served on the Governing body at Benton Park and Prince Henry’s.
CND souvenir T-shirt from 77/ 78 march to menwith hill attended by DW, NW and chris boffey8. I believe my working class roots had a profound influence on my life. Although as a typical teenager, I didn’t agree with my parents, they did give me a sound upbringing, and that all important start in life. As I grew older I began to appreciate and respect much more what they had done for me, and my brothers. I think I was influenced politically by my grandad and grandma Welbourne. My grandad had fought in the First World War, and he was a socialist. When you learn about the hardships that previous generations had gone through (the wars, economic hardship, poor education, housing and the health care available, unemployment, disadvantages, and inequalities) you learn to accept that whatever life throws at you, it’s nothing compared with what they had to suffer, so you often grin and bear it, and get on with life. Self reliance is a very important quality to have, but at the same time the support from others is essential.
9. I co-wrote an A level text book, ‘Britain 1783-1851: From Disaster to Triumph’, published by John Murray in 2003. I thought because I was writing about something I had been teaching for years I would find it straight forward. But it was not. I had always written by myself, and basically I had the freedom to approach subjects how I wished. There were more restraints because we were writing a book which was part of a series, and a tight format had to be adhered to. Because it was packed with lots of exercises and advice for students, we had to come up with a variety of interesting and stimulating tasks. It was nothing like text books I had been used to. I learned a good deal about the discipline and process of writing, and overcoming ‘writers block’, especially on occasions when I had other demands on me such as school exams and marking. It’s difficult trying to write a book when you are working full time. I’m much more relaxed now that I am retired. The response to the book has been gratifying, and it makes all that time and work worthwhile.
DW's history textbook10. I was a trade union representative at Benton in the early 80s. I don’t think you should assume that this meant trade unionists were all left-wing. It was about defending and improving working conditions, wages, and a career structure. It was a concern for injustices, and standing up to unfair Government policies. Democracy is very important. History has shown us that people have only achieved human and civil rights through fighting for them. This may have meant I was more to the left, but I hate injustice wherever it is to be found, and I believe that apathy is a threat to democracy.
11. History is a complex, extremely important subject. It is at the centre of the wheel of knowledge. Its study develops analytical ability and critical evaluation; it stimulates imagination and understanding ; it encourages empathy and feelings about the human condition; it should facilitate thinking for yourself. Although we might think it’s the study of the past, its much more than that. Confucius wrote that “we study the past in order to define the future”. History is who we are and why we are the way we are. It can be argued that if we don’t know history we are doomed to repeat it. However, Aldous Huxley claimed that the most important lessons of history are that people don’t learn very much from it. It was H.G.Wells who wrote that “human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe”. But it does help to explain the present. Throughout history, according to Gandhi, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always!” This lesson can apply equally to Nazis Germany and Syria today. According to George Orwell the effective way to destroy people is to deny or to obliterate their own understanding of their history. Not everyone can appreciate its importance though. Rudge, in Alan Bennett’s, ‘The History Boys’, defines it as “just one f****** thing after another.”
I have flirted with a mixture of philosophies of history throughout my life and career. I have never believed it is just about kings and queens, and the rich and powerful. I subscribe to the view that we should not ignore the lives and experiences of the vast majority, ‘the ordinary people’. They make a vital contribution to major events. I suppose I have favoured the interpretation of E.P. Thompson, who viewed history ‘from below’. It might be convenient to lean towards a strongly held view that it is about ‘great men’. But this would ignore that history is about struggle: working class movements, minority groups, oppressed people, women. It is about the process of transformation, emancipation and liberation. History has often been, as Churchill and Napoleon argued, that which has been written by the victors. It has also been in the hands of elites. That is why it is important that there are many voices, and that the so called losers, and the oppressed have a say.
Personally, I believe that history is packed with great stories which should be told. Kipling wrote that “if history were taught in the form of stories, it would never be forgotten.” I advocate the study of local history because this contributes evidence to the national picture, and provides numerous local stories, and knowledge of a community’s heritage. History is important in developing a national identity, whilst it brings millions of pounds into the economy through tourism, films, etc.
Governments and education policy makers ignore it at their peril.
12. At the moment I am writing down my mother’s memories. She is 91 years old, and although she tried to play down her part in history as insignificant, she lived through important events, and had a different social and domestic history compared with women today. I believe we have a duty to record our family history in order to inform family members, especially the young, about their heritage. If we don’t, there will come a time when we regret we didn’t do it before it was too late. Most of our lives are in the past and there are lots of tales to tell. There is new evidence to show that getting the elderly to talk about their lives stimulates their brains, and gives them a purpose. It acts as a form of therapy. I think we should all endeavour to record our family’s past and build up further evidence from letters, photographs, films etc.
I am interested in the First World War. Next year will be the centenary of its outbreak in 1914. I am presently involved in researching and writing articles on the event. I am particularly focusing on Bradford City and the War. Nine current and former Bradford City players, including some who were part of the 1911 FA Cup winning team, were killed, along with many supporters and local people who volunteered or who were conscripted. Last year a group of City supporters went to the Somme to pay their respects and to commemorate the role played by the Bradford Palls. This year we shall be doing the same at Ypres in Belgium. A worthwhile project would be for other football clubs, and other sporting clubs for that matter, to record their part in World War 1.
13. Otley Museum was a victim of local and national politics. It was housed in the Civic Centre, but the building has been the centre of discussions over repairs and how it should be used and financed. There was talk of new premises for the museum, but alas the arguments are still going on, and the Civic Centre is still lying empty. As a result the exhibits have been put into storage until the issue is resolved. and the Museum continues to operate as an archive service in rooms kindly provided by Otley Cycle Club. So it was not entirely saved.
civic centre, otleyIt is part of the national story of museums being closed or services being cut largely due to national and local government policies. This is short-sighted. Museums since the 17th. century have added to the social, cultural and political life of Europe. They have become a beacon of civilised, collective life, generators of culture and debate, and even political theatre. Here people have met, discussed, contemplated, and communicated. They are the venues for lectures, debates, concerts, evening events and educational opportunities for all ages. They bring in much needed income and employment at a time of economic recession, and attract millions of visitors each year. Britain is envied by people throughout the world for its history and culture, and museums have played a vital part in helping create what could be termed as a cultural oasis. Now there are signs of demise and even the danger that some may disappear altogether, and with it the quality of cultural life.
14. The reason why I researched and wrote about the life of Prince Henry, the son of James I, was because 2012 marked the 400th anniversary of his death from typhoid. Living in Otley I was amazed how few people knew anything about him especially as they had attended the school bearing his name. I simply wanted them to know about him. He was particularly important, because I feel he would have made a very good king. He was more popular than his father, the victim of the failed Gunpowder Plot in 1605. Because of his untimely death at the age of 18, his brother Charles became king on his father’s death. If he had not died so young and had become king, the English Civil War would probably have been averted, and with it the course of history.
I was also interested because I had attended Prince Henry’s in the Sixth Form, my two children had gone there, and I had been a Governor at the school. It was also another example of local history integrating into national history.
prince henry15. I have published articles on many subjects over the years: Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot; John Paul Jones and the Battle of Flamborough Head; Cholera in Leeds; Blind Jack Metcalf; the history of football, including women’s football; aspects of World War 1; teaching history. I have three articles coming out in the ‘Down Your Way’ magazine over the next few months. Next year to mark the 200th anniversary of the death of Matthew Flinders, the Lincolnshire explorer who was the first to circumnavigate, and name, Australia, I will be publishing an article on his life. I am also near to completing and writing up research on Peter Bussey, the Bradford Chartist leader. I write stories for my grandchildren, usually on their birthdays.
16. I have a number of favourite periods in British history. Nineteenth Century social and political history is probably my favourite. I also enjoy the Vikings, and prehistoric periods, including Iron Age bog bodies. As mentioned before, I have a passion for local history over different periods.
17. I am interested in European history, Irish history, and American history, including the native Americans (red Indians as they used to be called).
18. I studied in Hull. My student days were a very important and defining period of my life. I enjoyed studying, and meeting people from all backgrounds. At first I thought it would be daunting coming from a working class family on a council estate. The 60s was a period, largely because of grants and the expansion of higher education, when a number of working class students were given an opportunity to leave home and study. It was a liberating experience. We talked into the night about all manner of things from politics to music. I only remember watching television twice: Celtic winning the European Cup Final in 1967, and Manchester United the following year. It was in Hull that I made a lot of good friends. We partied, played football, drank, and put the world to rights. It was the time of student protests, civil rights issues, and great music. From what I can gather students today don’t have the good times we had. There were no student loans that had to be paid back. I think this was one of the worst things to happen to higher education, particularly affecting students from poorer backgrounds, and women wishing to enter university after having a family. Our grants lasted up to the last day of term, and I worked in a factory during the holidays. It was in Hull that I trained to be a teacher, and it was here that I had a fantastic grounding.
I thought when I met students from public school backgrounds they would be brighter. I soon found out this was not the case. They were just more confident, and had more money.
The experience made me more independent, worldly wise and more confident. I believed then, and still do, that everyone should have the opportunity to go away from home, whatever they wished to study, and even if it was only for a year. They’d mix with a wider cross section of society, and at least learn how to look after themselves, including cooking and budgeting their money.
19. I am still into rock music. I started with the Everly Brothers and Del Shannon. I saw the Beatles and the Rolling Stones at the beginning of their careers. I’ve seen most of the greats. I go quite often to see bands. My favourite live band is Springsteen who I have seen seven times. We saw him last year in Manchester, and I shall be going to the new arena in Leeds this year. I still buy CDs. My last one was ‘Graffiti On The Train’ by Stereophonics.
del shannonlisten to classic del shannon track 'runaway' here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qQdFaUr9zg20. Since becoming a Rolling Stones fan in my teens I had ‘long hair’ when I was at school. This got me into trouble in the Sixth Form, and I avoided conflict and the threat of expulsion, by plastering it down with water. It was part of the age we grew up in. I was dismayed when short back and sides came back in. But fashions come and go, and schools often became obsessed with fighting them – short skirts, punk etc. Its not as long now, and I’ve gone grey, which I blame on the effect pupils had on me.
21. In 2007 I was invited to the Queen’s Garden Party at Buckingham Palace. It was for “outstanding services to education”. Not only had I taught in schools for 37 years, and adult further education, I had been actively involved in teacher training and teaching post-graduates, particularly at Trinity and All Saints College, and Leeds University before that.
Although I never really considered myself a royalist, I was proud, especially for my family, to receive such an honour. The day at the Palace was thrilling, rubbing shoulders with people from all walks of life and different nationalities. I was impressed by the whole organisation. The security, though it was there, seemed very low key but very effective. Beefeaters marched around making sure we didn’t block the royal procession. I remember thinking if this had been America it would have been full of security guards and guns. The staff were very polite, charming and helpful. They made you feel important. There were several members of the royal family present, but the Queen stood out very regally. The Palace and its grounds were very impressive. It was a day my wife and I will always treasure.
the queen at the 2007 garden party22. I have six grandchildren ranging from 16 to 5 years old. They enjoy school and are doing well. They are fantastic kids with different personalities. They are imaginative and creative and have an interest in history. They also enjoy other things such as Maths, Science, Reading, Writing, Art, Music, and Sport. Oliver is a keen footballer and both he and Jenny come with me to watch Bradford City. They went to Wembley.
23. My partner Jenny died suddenly in 1999, at the age of 41. The previous evening we had returned from Stamford Bridge after watching City play Chelsea. She had an aneurism in the brain and never recovered. We had packed a great deal into the previous two weeks, including a trip to Ireland and going to see Elvis Costello. It felt like the end of the world. We had all sorts of plans, including getting married the following year. But life, like history, is not a simple linear progression. We seem to go along smoothly and then there are setbacks which cause us to go around in circles or backwards. I was very lucky in that I had strong support from family and friends, and along with the inner strength I was talking about, I was able to move on. You never know what’s round the corner. I made adjustments, and was reacquainted with someone I met a number of years ago. After going out for a while we decided to marry. It will be our fourth anniversary this year, and it is traditional that we go away to celebrate. So we are off to Majorca again, and looking forward to it.
24. I have been a Bradford City fan for about 55 years. Before school age my dad used to take me to watch Bradford Park Avenue because one of his best friends was Les Horsman who was captain. I used to go into the dressing room before a match and meet the players. At the age of 11, I went with a mate to watch City, and I’ve been hooked ever since. It has been a roller coaster ride. The fire was a massive tragedy which fortunately I missed because I was on a Benton Park school trip to France. My brother Chris was there though. The impact it has had, even now after all these years, is to bind the fans together. There is a special family atmosphere which you don’t get at a lot of clubs. I too despair at those overpaid, prima donnas who are the scourge of sport. I dislike the over commercialisation of the game which I have loved all my life. As a kid, I wanted to be a professional footballer, and it was Les Horsman who told me I could get trials, and possibly make it, but what if I had a serious injury that finished my career. Why didn’t I use my brains, pass my exams and go on to be a PE teacher? After all I could still play football but would have a career to fall back on. The result was I trained to be a History teacher. I coached school football teams from the start, and a village junior team in Lincolnshire.
valley parade, home of bradford cityEventually a serious back injury from playing football, finished me off. It was, as it turned out, sound advice. I missed playing but have enjoyed the ups and downs of City life. Although it was an achievement to experience the two years in the Premier League. I prefer the lower leagues. At least we have a closer relationship with the players through various functions. There is no aloofness like it is higher up. By and large, City players are good role models to young fans. I take my grandchildren, and they are able to enjoy it in safety. Getting to the League Cup Final was like a fairy tale come true. I think, as a club, we made a lot of friends all over the world. The coverage was massive. We had a great day out at Wembley. It was just the 90 minutes which were disappointing. Nonetheless, who knows we might be back, and hopefully we’ll climb out of the frustrating Second Division.
I write regularly for the Bradford City fanzine, The City Gent. Through this I am able to combine my love of writing with my passion for Bradford City.
25. I played football, rugby (League and Union), cricket and hockey for staff teams. I once coached a girls’ football team that played the women’s staff. I can’t remember us losing a game against the pupils. Health and Safety regulations eventually stopped these enjoyable annual events against pupils. I just can’t recall who played in which position, but Mick Bush stood out because he had played rugby league for Bramley. I remember a few of us went when he made his debut against Wigan. I enjoyed rugby league far more than union, and still do. I have been several times over the years to watch the Bulls and Rhinos.
Several of us played football together in local teams. I think the sporting connection was instrumental in forging a successful staff, and a very good school.